No Mans Land/Dead Space

[dbHunterNY]

Couldn't find a thread for it already started, so here we go.

PSA aka :
There's no such thing as "No Mans Land" or "Dead Space" ....under the context of hitting the area of the vitals. If you think you hit it and lost a deer then realize you made a shit shot or shot placement didn't account for the deer's reaction enough. This close to the season it's ALL over my social media feeds and hunters keep bringing it up. Shoot me down but you've better bring a damn good understanding of deer anatomy to the debate. 

[Wolc123]

It sounds like you are talking about that imaginary space below the spine and above the lungs.  
 

People get confused about that because the spine dips down and the back straps are thick in that area.

Edited September 17, 2024 by Wolc123

[G-man]

Most people that think they head dead space  hit high. Blood  trail is sparce if any..  

[Rusty]

6 minutes ago, G-man said:

Most people that think they head dead space  hit high. 

Exactly, there is no empty space between the lungs and spine.  If you hit below the spine you will hit lung.  But people don't realize how low the spine is in the shoulder region, they shoot over it but think they were under.    

[Robhuntandfish]

I effed up last season...... 

Shot at a deer without accommodating for load up on the release of the bolt and hit high. Missed everything vital. Just shot thru muscle.   I got rattled by massive 8 at 40 behind me just before the other buck came in range.  I generally would aim for heart at anything over 30 and I didn't.  Never found the deer but got pics of it on cam and later on cam showing the high hit missing the vitals and right over the spine. 

First two pics and video are right after the hit, last video shows the deer later in season.  Can see the high wound. 

Edited September 17, 2024 by Robhuntandfish

[Wolc123]

3 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Exactly, there is no empty space between the lungs and spine.  If you hit below the spine you will hit lung.  But people don't realize how low the spine is in the shoulder region, they shoot over it but think they were under.    

Good picture, but I predict we still get a naysayer or two.  

[Land1]

i agree a "No mans land hit" is above spine not between spine and lungs .

[mowin]

No Man's land is just as fictional as a sure thing. 

[dbHunterNY]

What tripped my trigger is the dad (David Holder) from the show Raised Hunting. I mean he's a knowledgeable guy and a public figure. He was on a podcast as a go to person for knowledge. He said it's real and then proceeded to show slow-mo video footage and an illustrated diagram. The shot was clearly high and forward at the top of the scapula above the spinal cord. Podcasts are rarely live otherwise I would've called in losing my shit.

[mowin]

9 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

What tripped my trigger is the dad (David Holder) from the show Raised Hunting. I mean he's a knowledgeable guy and a public figure. He was on a podcast as a go to person for knowledge. He said it's real and then proceeded to show slow-mo video footage and an illustrated diagram. The shot was clearly high and forward at the top of the scapula above the spinal cord. Podcasts are rarely live otherwise I would've called in losing my shit.

I really enjoy that show. It shows real family values and is from the heart. 

I've seen that episode, and I agree with you, David was so wrong.  

[dbHunterNY]

@Robhuntandfish my cousin took a long poke one season and somehow managed to hit a 120" 8pt on the farm high and back. The muzzy tipped arrow didnt have enough energy to break vertebrae and just ended up putting a big hole in the hide and going into the backstraps. His dad/my uncle ended up shooting it a couple weeks later opening weekend of rifle season. It was acting fine chasing a hot doe.

[dbHunterNY]

Just now, mowin said:

I really enjoy that show. It shows real family values and is from the heart. 

I've seen that episode, and I agree with you, David was so wrong.  

That's what killed me. Good people with influence.

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Rusty said:

Exactly, there is no empty space between the lungs and spine.  If you hit below the spine you will hit lung.  But people don't realize how low the spine is in the shoulder region, they shoot over it but think they were under.    

Solid photo right there. Only thing it doesn't show is how the top of the ribs are actually higher than the bottom of the spine. I always hear folks say the lungs deflate and the timing was just right.

My copied reply to the last person...

unless a single lung hit deflates the lung and then the chest cavity seals back up with tissue there's never air between rib cage and the surface of the lungs. The diaphragm muscles go through involuntary contractions which changes the physical volume of the chest cavity, which in turn pulls in or pushes out air through the trachea/wind pipe. If you had air trapped there (pneumothorax?), the air pressure pushing on your lungs would cause them to collapse and you wouldn't be able to breathe.

[grampy]

I've seen my share of bloodtrails. Can't count the number of times I've had hunters say I drilled it right through the lungs. It usually doesn't take long to figure out they shot above the spine. I'd usually go a mile or so on the line before pulling the plug. The whole time the hunter is insisting he drilled the lungs. That's when I say if that were so, you probably wouldn't have needed to call me. Then they'd say well maybe it was just above the lungs and below the spine? Nope. You either hit the chest cavity, or you hit above the spine. There's no such thing as a dead zone. That's why your deer is still alive. 

Edited September 18, 2024 by grampy

[Trial153]

Deer have very long spinal prostise  in the thoracic region of their spine. A broadhead can get though it very easy with only a superficial damage.