Any fishery experts?

[Ncountry]

After reading the  posts about the kids catching the musky , my thoughts turned to fishing this summer. 

My camp is on a small lake 3 miles long,1/4 miles wide. 

It has fantastic bass, crappie, and panfish fishing . Great numbers and sizes. The northern pike on the other  hand are lacking in size.

There are tons of pike and they are easy to catch, but a 20" pike is rare. Most run 14"-18". In 20 years I've  seen  one caught once that was 37".  Why do you think that is.

There are schools of panfish, and tons of golden shiners(I think that's it) in the shallows so it doesn't seem like it's possible that they are hungry.

My running theory is that the big ones are so well fed that they won't bother biting the typical lure thrown out, because it's too small. What do you think?

 

[Robhuntandfish]

I think most lakes with northerns are like this.  A 37-40 inch pike takes a few years to get that big.  The St Lawrence is the same way, lots of 22-26" northerns and a 40" is rare.  Kinda look at it like lots of 4-6 point bucks but not many 10 pointers around in comparison.  Lots of lakes I have I have fished are like this in the Dacks too.   I've prob even fished the lake your talking about.  Lol. 

I've done a lot of northern pike fishing and most of the big ones I've caught weren't on big lures.  My biggest, a 43", was on a jr thunderstick.   I've even caught a 39" pike on a bass buzzbait.  

Best time to catch the big ones is just after ice out cause they stay more shallow are aren't so spread out in a lake.  Also a lot of time the smaller quicker pike might grab a lure before the big one gets to it.  So a lot of competition makes it tougher to have bigger pike as the small ones are so aggressive.  

Edited February 1 by Robhuntandfish

[Ncountry]

2 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I think most lakes with northerns are like this.  A 37-40 inch pike takes a few years to get that big.  The St Lawrence is the same way, lots of 22-26" northerns and a 40" is rare.  Kinda look at it like lots of 4-6 point bucks but not many 10 pointers around in comparison.  Lots of lakes I have I have fished are like this in the Dacks too.   I've prob even fished the lake your talking about.  Lol. 

I've done a lot of northern pike fishing and most of the big ones I've caught weren't on big lures.  My biggest, a 43", was on a jr thunderstick.   I've even caught a 39" pike on a bass buzzbait.  

Best time to catch the big ones is just after ice out cause they stay more shallow are aren't so spread out in a lake.  Also a lot of time the smaller quicker pike might grab a lure before the big one gets to it.  So a lot of competition makes it tougher to have bigger like as the small ones are so aggressive.  

Yeah , most of em i catch is either throwing a rubber worm or a spinner bait. Heck I won't even throw a white spinner bait on an overcast day. Too many pike to take off.lol

Still seems wierd. It's basically a private lake at this point with only a handful of people fishing it regularly. And most of them don't keep any.  The state access is carry in only and through a bit of swamp so not many people coming on that way.

[Robhuntandfish]

14 minutes ago, Ncountry said:

Yeah , most of em i catch is either throwing a rubber worm or a spinner bait. Heck I won't even throw a white spinner bait on an overcast day. Too many pike to take off.lol

Still seems wierd. It's basically a private lake at this point with only a handful of people fishing it regularly. And most of them don't keep any.  The state access is carry in only and through a bit of swamp so not many people coming on that way.

With so many younger more aggressive pike it's prob difficult for pike to get that big.  Gotta figure a 40" pike in the Dacks is at least 16 years old and likely 20.  Chances of them surviving that long in a small lake with so many pike is probably small.  Just like a pond that is too loaded with bluegill and none of them get to their potential.   

My best pike lake would only give up like 4 pike a day for us in the boat but generally one or two were pushing 40 inches or better.  And it wasn't known as a pike lake but as a small mouth and lake trout spot.  

The biggest pike we got up in the lakes near your area was a 39.5" and we never knew there were pike in it.  It was the only one we caught when we were after walleye and smallmouth.  

 

[Robhuntandfish]

Also if it's pretty shallow a big pike in the summer heat likes deeper cooler water and it prob stresses them some if they don't have access to that and also an  oxygen rich environment.  My two best pike lakes were both small but had access to deeper water and deep weed edges. 

Edited February 1 by Robhuntandfish

[mowin]

Assuming they did a DNA test to confirm?  Sounds pretty quick to get that done? No...

[Larry]

I'm not a expert but I play one at home 😁 

[Ncountry]

12 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Also if it's pretty shallow a big pike in the summer heat likes deeper cooler water and it prob stresses them some if they don't have access to that and also an  oxygen rich environment.  My two best pike lakes were both small but had access to deeper water and deep weed edges. 

Maybe this. The lake probably averages 10' depth. Over 80% of lake has weeds that grow to 0- 5' from the surface. It's all fish holding habitat. lol.

But there is only maybe 15 acre area that is 15- 25' deep. 

I've heard they catch big pike through the ice, I just have never made a trek out in the winter to verify.

[EsoxManiac]

On 1/31/2025 at 7:23 PM, Ncountry said:

After reading the  posts about the kids catching the musky , my thoughts turned to fishing this summer. 

My camp is on a small lake 3 miles long,1/4 miles wide. 

It has fantastic bass, crappie, and panfish fishing . Great numbers and sizes. The northern pike on the other  hand are lacking in size.

There are tons of pike and they are easy to catch, but a 20" pike is rare. Most run 14"-18". In 20 years I've  seen  one caught once that was 37".  Why do you think that is.

There are schools of panfish, and tons of golden shiners(I think that's it) in the shallows so it doesn't seem like it's possible that they are hungry.

My running theory is that the big ones are so well fed that they won't bother biting the typical lure thrown out, because it's too small. What do you think?

 

Depth and or source of cooler water as well as spawning area

Conesus lake is a lake near me that is heavily fished but still produces big pike they do also have many different options of food and the Dec made artificial wetlands for them to spawn and there is some promotion for  catch and release though that seems more directed at the tiger muskies,

I know of some shallow fountain ponds near me that are choked with weeds and still hold decent pike around 30" and smallmouth bass unless their is deep spots i don't know about so oxygen and cold water is important  any creeks that flow in to an area with weeds or some structure

 

Try imitating or finding lures that imitate the smaller pike until you get a bigger one and see if it spits up what they are eating i guess 

Or use big dead baits big pike are lazy

Also i cant confirm this but i believe muskies like water temps slightly warmer then the pike

 

Also know that pike seemed to change each year had a hotspot two years ago that was dead last year

On 1/31/2025 at 7:43 PM, Robhuntandfish said:

I think most lakes with northerns are like this.  A 37-40 inch pike takes a few years to get that big.  The St Lawrence is the same way, lots of 22-26" northerns and a 40" is rare.  Kinda look at it like lots of 4-6 point bucks but not many 10 pointers around in comparison.  Lots of lakes I have I have fished are like this in the Dacks too.   I've prob even fished the lake your talking about.  Lol. 

I've done a lot of northern pike fishing and most of the big ones I've caught weren't on big lures.  My biggest, a 43", was on a jr thunderstick.   I've even caught a 39" pike on a bass buzzbait.  

Best time to catch the big ones is just after ice out cause they stay more shallow are aren't so spread out in a lake.  Also a lot of time the smaller quicker pike might grab a lure before the big one gets to it.  So a lot of competition makes it tougher to have bigger pike as the small ones are so aggressive.  

The st lawrence has also had a huge reduction in spawning grounds for pike

[Bucksnbows]

On 1/31/2025 at 7:23 PM, Ncountry said:

After reading the  posts about the kids catching the musky , my thoughts turned to fishing this summer. 

My camp is on a small lake 3 miles long,1/4 miles wide. 

It has fantastic bass, crappie, and panfish fishing . Great numbers and sizes. The northern pike on the other  hand are lacking in size.

There are tons of pike and they are easy to catch, but a 20" pike is rare. Most run 14"-18". In 20 years I've  seen  one caught once that was 37".  Why do you think that is.

There are schools of panfish, and tons of golden shiners(I think that's it) in the shallows so it doesn't seem like it's possible that they are hungry.

My running theory is that the big ones are so well fed that they won't bother biting the typical lure thrown out, because it's too small. What do you think?

 

Sorry I missed this post in January. I am a fisheries expert, it’s what I do for a job. We look at three factors: forage, habitat and predation. Sounds like all three should benefit your northern pike as you have described them in your lake. It may be where you target them that will lead you to more bigger fish. Bigger pike like any top predator will take over the prime lies. Check weed beds near the edges of drop offs and any creek mouths that may enter the lake.  If you have bass, shiners, bluegill, and crappy, you have ample forage for the pike. 

[Ncountry]

2 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

Sorry I missed this post in January. I am a fisheries expert, it’s what I do for a job. We look at three factors: forage, habitat and predation. Sounds like all three should benefit your northern pike as you have described them in your lake. It may be where you target them that will lead you to more bigger fish. Bigger pike like any top predator will take over the prime lies. Check weed beds near the edges of drop offs and any creek mouths that may enter the lake.  If you have bass, shiners, bluegill, and crappy, you have ample forage for the pike. 

Thanks, that is my understanding as well. Unfortunately there are no weed edges next to drop offs or creeks entering fir easy spots to pick. The whole lake is " perfect habitat" lol.

What EM said,  that they ate lazy lines up with my thoughts. They are probably there, just lazy and I don't throw anything large enough to peek there interest. I rarely target them but still catch dozens if not over a 100 a year on rubber worm,crappie jig, or spinner bait. They are small though. 

[Bucksnbows]

7 hours ago, Ncountry said:

Thanks, that is my understanding as well. Unfortunately there are no weed edges next to drop offs or creeks entering fir easy spots to pick. The whole lake is " perfect habitat" lol.

What EM said,  that they ate lazy lines up with my thoughts. They are probably there, just lazy and I don't throw anything large enough to peek there interest. I rarely target them but still catch dozens if not over a 100 a year on rubber worm,crappie jig, or spinner bait. They are small though. 

When you figure the top predator makes up roughly 1% of the fish population, it’s easy to miss the bigguns unless you thrown them some meat. I fish 10” long flies for pike myself when I’m chasing them. 

[Rusty]

If you've ever caught muskie or pike in NJ,  you're welcome.         

[Larry]

The biggest pike I've ever caught was 45 inches. I caught it on a white spinner bait on Otter lake a small lake north of Weedsport. I was fishing for bass when it hit.

[Larry]

Hey has anyone finished duck lake. I want to try fishing with my kayak. Just wondering if it's any good