Where are all the hunters?

[Mike103]

I wish the NYC DEP land would cut some trees. Not all but selective cutting. 
 

Opening up the logging roads and fire lanes would be a good start.

[Belo]

You guys are hilarious. Numbers are up or flat because a bunch of kids and wives are buying tags... like that wasn't a thing before and now all the sudden is? Any of us old enough to remember the 90's know it was a thing then. In fact, I think it was more common. It's easier now to just poach a buck and not tag it at all.

There is so much anecdotal speculation on this board and flat out denial "because I don't see it" that it's laughable. Like it or not, the vast majority of this state is concentrated in the extreme SE, where hunting is becoming increasingly popular. Mostly fueled by field to fork mentalities.  

Most hunters no longer strap a dead deer to the top of their ford pinto, because most hunters these days have a truck. Most of those truck hunters have cabs or tonneau cover. There's no reason to leave the meat exposed to the elements. 

Similarly, a lot of guys have learned to cut up their own meat and those deer may never even see a truck bed.

Some have found that posting your whole world on social media isn't actually all that great an idea and keep to themselves.

I personally run into hunters all the time. Half the guys that coach my kids football teams are hunters. I meet coworkers all the time who hunt, but what has changed is that we all tend to guard our personal lives more as you never know who might be an anti-hunter and it's just not worth it. So instead, it's like figuring out what party your boss votes for. You drop little hints and read into comments before you know "it's safe". I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but it doesn't make it untrue either. 

Also, the orange army has gotten a little smarter. Filling up your truck, smoking cigs and eating burgers with all your cammo on? Not as common anymore, so you're not going to see that as much.

The upstate population is also shrinking. Rural areas are shifting to suburban and urban, so you're going to see a lot less hunters driving to hunt and maybe that guy isn't wearing all his cammo on his drive. I know I don't. That guy might also have a driveway or hidden area to park so he's not drawing attention. 

I generally think hunting is shifting (as is the whole world really) to a less social culture and more of an individual activity. 

But are you guys really out here implying there is some sort of conspiracy? 

[Belo]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:45 AM, DirtTime said:

I don't think the numbers DEC puts out have ever been correct on hunter numbers or harvests. Buying tags doesn't mean you hunt, I have heard people talking in stores to get tags and DPM's just so actual hunters don't get them. There's a lot of people out there who do crappy stuff, and not just having the wife buy tags for them.

how would their license sales not be accurate? It's like any other commodity that is bought, it's not hard to have an accurate number. Of course we know harvest numbers have some assumptions built into them.

And we don't have any license caps in NY. We all get our bow and regular season tags. Many regions get unlimited doe tags. Someone getting a doe tag in a low prob wmu, doesn't stop another hunter from getting his or her buck tags, plus their either sex bow tag. Hell we all get a bear tag lol.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Belo

[Belo]

20 hours ago, cas said:

Part of it, at least in my immediate area is the old camps are all gone. Where I hunt, we're two people. In the 50's and 60's there were 8-12 people. (but the surrounding available land to hunt wouldn't support that now away).  The other neighboring camps are mostly gone, the old timers passed away. As they got older they upgraded their cabins and shacks to actual houses. So when they died, they were turned into homes. 

As well the state land we hunt has been logged and turned into an un-huntable mess. So the guys that traveled from far away and even out of state to hunt it every year no longer come. Anyone who does come doesn't come back after seeing what a mess it is. 

So no more Orange Army (can't say I miss that), no more huge amounts of shots opening day. But also no one pushing the deer around keeping them moving. 

For those that missed part of the other thread, It is fair to point out that hunting numbers grew in the 50's and peaked in the late 80's, where they then began to drop. The last 15 years though they have been relatively flat.

I wonder too how many of those hunters in the 50's and 60's even bought tags. Way before my time, and some of you can correct me, but I suspect that having to buy a license to put meat on the table was probably not overly welcome by all. Especially if you were part of a gang putting on a drive and pushing with your uncles old rifle. I have to imagine so many of those guys at camp were there for the drinking and fun and many of those shots never got close to the running deer. 

Some total assumptions by me, but fueled by stories I've heard of those days. 

[riverrat]

16 minutes ago, Belo said:

You guys are hilarious. Numbers are up or flat because a bunch of kids and wives are buying tags... like that wasn't a thing before and now all the sudden is? Any of us old enough to remember the 90's know it was a thing then. In fact, I think it was more common. It's easier now to just poach a buck and not tag it at all.

 

 

I'm curious how many of the posters are remembering the 70's and 80' more than the 90's and on. I know that's where my comparisons come from.

 

[Belo]

2 minutes ago, riverrat said:

I'm curious how many of the posters are remembering the 70's and 80' more than the 90's and on. I know that's where my comparisons come from.

 

It is factually correct that the 80's and 90's saw the peak of hunting. There are less hunters now in 2023 than there were in 95. That's a fact. What isn't a fact is that there are less hunters now than there were in 2006. 

I'm not an old codger by any means, but we are also all guilty of fondly remembering the past or even misremembering it. Nostalgia is a hell of thing. What I haven't heard in this thread is how there were far less turkeys and deer in the woods in the 70's and 80's and how it was amazing to even see deer tracks in the snow. Turkey numbers have dipped lately, but we're also possibly living in some of the most target rich woods we have ever had. 

So what is better? Less hunters, but enough to keep the sport alive, and more deer... or a lot more hunters and nothing to shoot?

Google Doug Duren. He has some great perspective on this as an old wisconsin deer hunter (which I think is top 3 hunter densities). He talks about how small the deer numbers were and how you'd run home with big news if you even saw a deer. The good old days weren't as good old as we sometimes think. 

[Mike103]

39 minutes ago, Belo said:

Most hunters no longer strap a dead deer to the top of their ford pinto

Hey you saw me?!

[2BuckBizCT]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

He talks about how small the deer numbers were and how you'd run home with big news if you even saw a deer. The good old days weren't as good old as we sometimes think. 

My dad went 5 or 6 years once in Catskill Mountains (late 60's IIRC) without seeing a Buck during the rifle season opening week. He would see 10-15 does a day. 

[Buckmaster7600]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

You guys are hilarious. Numbers are up or flat because a bunch of kids and wives are buying tags... like that wasn't a thing before and now all the sudden is? Any of us old enough to remember the 90's know it was a thing then. In fact, I think it was more common. It's easier now to just poach a buck and not tag it at all.

There is so much anecdotal speculation on this board and flat out denial "because I don't see it" that it's laughable. Like it or not, the vast majority of this state is concentrated in the extreme SE, where hunting is becoming increasingly popular. Mostly fueled by field to fork mentalities.  

Most hunters no longer strap a dead deer to the top of their ford pinto, because most hunters these days have a truck. Most of those truck hunters have cabs or tonneau cover. There's no reason to leave the meat exposed to the elements. 

Similarly, a lot of guys have learned to cut up their own meat and those deer may never even see a truck bed.

Some have found that posting your whole world on social media isn't actually all that great an idea and keep to themselves.

I personally run into hunters all the time. Half the guys that coach my kids football teams are hunters. I meet coworkers all the time who hunt, but what has changed is that we all tend to guard our personal lives more as you never know who might be an anti-hunter and it's just not worth it. So instead, it's like figuring out what party your boss votes for. You drop little hints and read into comments before you know "it's safe". I'm not saying that it's a good thing, but it doesn't make it untrue either. 

Also, the orange army has gotten a little smarter. Filling up your truck, smoking cigs and eating burgers with all your cammo on? Not as common anymore, so you're not going to see that as much.

The upstate population is also shrinking. Rural areas are shifting to suburban and urban, so you're going to see a lot less hunters driving to hunt and maybe that guy isn't wearing all his cammo on his drive. I know I don't. That guy might also have a driveway or hidden area to park so he's not drawing attention. 

I generally think hunting is shifting (as is the whole world really) to a less social culture and more of an individual activity. 

But are you guys really out here implying there is some sort of conspiracy? 

It’s always been a thing to fill others tags but like anything else it becomes more popular with easier access. 
 

like most things on an Internet forum we are all posting on what we see/hear. I don’t have a clue what goes on in/around the city so I don’t speak on it.
 

I work in a place with 180 people at least 1/3 of them hunt. I’ve heard more talk about filling others tags since hunters safety courses were put online than before probably 10 fold. It’s always the same story “I did theirs online now I have 3 bucks tags…”

 

did it happen before? absolutely, is it happening more now? from what I’m seeing absolutely.

[Larry]

Last year I hunted the Keaney swamp state forest on Thanksgiving day I try to hunt there at least once a year. I killed my 1st deer there. There are two roads a upper and lower I came in the lower and there were no cars on the road I hunted till noon and went out the lower road and saw no cars. I also heard no shots while there. There used to be cars there all the time. I did see 8 deer while I was there. Who knows where they all went. I see more guys duck hunting than deer hunting there.

[Dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, Larry said:

Last year I hunted the Keaney swamp state forest on Thanksgiving day I try to hunt there at least once a year. I killed my 1st deer there. There are two roads an upper and lower I came in the lower and there were no cars on the road I hunted till noon and went out the lower road and saw no cars. I also heard no shots while there. There used to be cars there all the time. I did see 8 deer while I was there. Who knows where they all went. I see more guys duck hunting than deer hunting there.

 I can say be me several guys i knew that used to hunt state land now food plot smaller private parcels now that the whole plot thing has become so popular.

I stopped hunting deer a few years ago; I was scoped by a 15 year old with his rifle standing next to his dad on state land. And thats not the first time. Watched him raise and point his gun at me in my binoculars; I was wearing orange vest and hat. Gave them a piece of my mind at the parking area.Turns out they were related to a co worker who I also didnt think very highly of.

Thats it for me, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

But I do a little late small game and buy a license still; not all that serious about it, but occasional walk is fun.

[Belo]

On that point Dinsdale, hunting related accidents are also way down as hunting styles have shifted. Every year there were multiple accidental shootings. Now they're much more rare. And that's a good thing. 

[Nomad]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:59 AM, DirtTime said:

. I realize some people think the world is nothing but Skittles and unicorns

First off Skittles suck, and who says unicorns aren’t mean and nasty creatures ? 

[Dinsdale]

15 minutes ago, Belo said:

On that point Dinsdale, hunting related accidents are also way down as hunting styles have shifted. Every year there were multiple accidental shootings. Now they're much more rare. And that's a good thing. 

100% no argument there; safe as ever.

Those good ol’ days of the 50’s and 60’s there were 50-60 shooting accidents a year(!) and many more fatalities as emergency services were not a quick response time.

But when you are on the receiving end of a pointed gun; it’s enough for me now.  I just dont trust anyone that much as I have seen the results of poor gun handling and judgement.

Doesn’t mean I’m not interested in hunting still, just not enough to hunt deer where I dont know who’s around.

 

[G-man]

23 hours ago, cas said:

^ This was all clear cut by taking the trunks and leaving everything else laying where it fell. The first year you could cross it in theory, picture climbing over a 200 x 400 yard brush pile. Maybe an hour, maybe more, what took 5 minutes to walk across before. Now it's all grown in thorns and briar, on top of that.   Farther down, an older section is filling in with baby forrest. You can weave your way through it sideways, visibility is about 6-8 feet. You're not going to see/shoot anything in there.  

Great habitat seems like they are doing it right. Tops left to protect new seedlings.  My place you can see 50 yards if your lucky..

.