Hunting access

[Wolc123]

6 hours ago, Upstate Nerdneck said:

You're spoiled, they have a kicker!  20+ years of hooking them off the chute with a 70 to 90 year old 90% deaf WW2 vet driving the tractor.  I got the scars to prove it!  RIP gramp.

My grandpa got his first square baler about the time I hit my teens.   I always got the job of stacking those bales up in the hay loft in the summer.  Man, did I miss the old days of the loose hay then. 
 

I saved the old forks, trolley and crane rail from the last of the his grandfathers old barns, that I recently took down.  
 

If they ever ban hunting, and I have to resort to getting cattle here again, I’m going back to loose hay.  I’m already working on a plan to get that old crane rail up between the trusses of my new pole barn.  
 

You can see a little bit of those old forks, where they are stored now, under the back porch of my new barn, on the left side of this photo .

 

Hopefully they never ban hunting though, because getting our protein “free” from whitetails is infinitely better than paying to get it from Herefords or Angus. 
 

One of the biggest reasons for that is that they take care of the hay and corn harvest themselves.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Wolc123

[Bolt Action]

15 or so years ago I was driving up from Hemlock back to Rochester heading back from an unsuccessful turkey hunt. There were fields on both sides of the road for a good stretch with plenty of turkey on the West side of the road. I followed the field to an adjacent farmhouse and knocked on the door. The woman who answered was well into her 80's, wiry, and tough as nails. She said that she was pestered from time to time by people asking to hunt her land. We got to talking and I spent the better part of an hour getting to know her. Her husband had passed away years prior, and her kids were chomping at the bit to break up the farm an sell it off. She was adamant that she'd keep it together until the day she died just to spite them. Anyway, by the end of our talk, she'd given me exclusive permission in writing to hunt the farm as long as she owned it. I went back a few times and always had a little gift for her or offered to help with anything she might need help with. I never had any luck hunting there, but I always smile when I think about her. All she wanted was someone to talk to, and for that, she was happy to offer me the access I was asking for. Sadly, the property has now long since changed hands.

[dbHunterNY]

in my opinion liability and taxes and hunters not contributing enough to offset the somewhat exclusive enough use isn't the problem. i'm thinking long term and most of the country being private property land is hard to keep and those that keep it are well enough off. each time a generation inherits property it's more chiefs in the teepee that have a say. tracts of land are being whittled down to the point were it's hard for a property to be huntable without relying on a good neighbor to go get your deer or being an outlaw taking anything they please. not too far down the road my sibling and i will have to work to keep the land we inherit and it won't be easy work.

[escpen]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

 not too far down the road my sibling and i will have to work to keep the land we inherit and it won't be easy work.

I’ve already told my kids that any properties I own will be going to one of them individually and that the decision on who the property(ies) go to will likely be based on how stable they are in their lives (I.e. do they have good jobs?  A good relationship with their spouse? Etc.). I currently own 2 small hunting properties and an co-owner with a family member in another (so far co-ownership has been fine, but I’m concerned that could change). Problem is that I have 4 kids - not enough for all of them yet, and they’re still way too young to gauge stability. 

[broomeguy]

12 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

in my opinion liability and taxes and hunters not contributing enough to offset the somewhat exclusive enough use isn't the problem. i'm thinking long term and most of the country being private property land is hard to keep and those that keep it are well enough off. each time a generation inherits property it's more chiefs in the teepee that have a say. tracts of land are being whittled down to the point were it's hard for a property to be huntable without relying on a good neighbor to go get your deer or being an outlaw taking anything they please. not too far down the road my sibling and i will have to work to keep the land we inherit and it won't be easy work.

There are some properties classified as Family Trust or something like that. Perhaps a good way to slow down the break up of larger acreage tracts.

[blackbeltbill]

   Many years back when,I was a member of the Monroe- Chester Sportsman's Club, I wanted to Turkey hunt off the Club land on the adjoining private land. So,I simply wrote down all info from the posted sign and wrote a nice letter. 

  Now,I have the habit of extra sealing my envelopes with just a 1"" strip of Scotch  Tape placed in the middle of the glued seal.

   About 1 Week later,I got that letter back and marked in Red diagonally was- Return To Sender.

   DAMN...

  But in looking at the back of the envelope,I could see where someone ever so delicately used a Knife to peel back that Scotch Tape and worked the glued back of the envelope  open. Very Small areas of scratched  up paper was just barely visible.  Really not noticeable  unless you were really looking.

  My Letter was definitely  Read.

     Now someone above wrote that knocking on someone's door today is looked on as intrusion  and,I always felt that way even years back.  So,I have sent a number of letters out-(printed) over the years. 

  And today,I know when someone  knocks on my door or more often- raps on it hard,I will answer and step outside and close the door behind me if,I want to continue  the talk. My Father told me early on to do that especially  if the Police show up. He was a Cop for 10 years. Just open the Door and step out and shut the door behind you and talk.

   Anyway,I have sent a number of letters out many years back as well as many talks with co- workers who,I knew owned Land in the different  Warehouses, I worked in. 

 Never worked for me. Unfortunately, I am a Tough looking Hombre so that didn't  help - lol.

  So years back after getting out of 2 Gun Clubs because of ever higher Dues,I have focused 100% on Public as that is all,I have.

[G-man]

The last time i asked for permission was delaware county  for fall turkey . After driving around and hunting bear spring mountain .my friend and i saw a large mixed flock along the road  it was  posted so we drove up the raod ans name changed on signs went back the other way past the birds again and found farmers  house..  after knocking on door ( no one was home) we went across street thinking maybe family across road. The farmer there was coming  out of barn and we asked if he kne where owner across street was. He told us he had regualr job and asked why we were looking for him. 

We said we saw big flock of birds  out in his field by road but it was posted..  he asked where we were from told him bufflao. He looked shocked and asked why were were way  out his way..a simple well you allow a  2nd bird  and open early season for turkey.  He laughed and siad well if you want there is a flock behind  my barn you can hunt.  We asked where we should park to be out of the way. And  looked  behind barn 15 gobblers...   a quck crawl along a rock wall and bang  a double on adult  birds.. my friend wanted to go after a second  bird but  i said i have birds  on my place for later opeing  in our area ..  dont want to tick  farmer  off..  knocked  on his door showed  him our 2 birds  gave him 20. Apiece and thanked him..  he invited us back but  only for turkey..  after several years and card and christmas ham sent  he  intorduced us to his son who was taking  over the farm. The son told us he was leasing the farm to hunters from nyc but he kept 1st 3 days of turkey season for us no charge at the insistance of his father..   we hunted there till the season dares changed and my friend passed away. We only took 1 bird each and were usually  only there 1 day though we always planned for extra  if needed. 

[blackbeltbill]

51 minutes ago, G-man said:

The last time i asked for permission was delaware county  for fall turkey . After driving around and hunting bear spring mountain .my friend and i saw a large mixed flock along the road  it was  posted so we drove up the raod ans name changed on signs went back the other way past the birds again and found farmers  house..  after knocking on door ( no one was home) we went across street thinking maybe family across road. The farmer there was coming  out of barn and we asked if he kne where owner across street was. He told us he had regualr job and asked why we were looking for him. 

We said we saw big flock of birds  out in his field by road but it was posted..  he asked where we were from told him bufflao. He looked shocked and asked why were were way  out his way..a simple well you allow a  2nd bird  and open early season for turkey.  He laughed and siad well if you want there is a flock behind  my barn you can hunt.  We asked where we should park to be out of the way. And  looked  behind barn 15 gobblers...   a quck crawl along a rock wall and bang  a double on adult  birds.. my friend wanted to go after a second  bird but  i said i have birds  on my place for later opeing  in our area ..  dont want to tick  farmer  off..  knocked  on his door showed  him our 2 birds  gave him 20. Apiece and thanked him..  he invited us back but  only for turkey..  after several years and card and christmas ham sent  he  intorduced us to his son who was taking  over the farm. The son told us he was leasing the farm to hunters from nyc but he kept 1st 3 days of turkey season for us no charge at the insistance of his father..   we hunted there till the season dares changed and my friend passed away. We only took 1 bird each and were usually  only there 1 day though we always planned for extra  if needed. 

Good Story above.

 I think today- how congested of an area you live in would  affect getting access.

   High Crime where,I live. I can understand  people being leery of opening the Front Door to a Stranger.

TG- I love the Challenge of Public Lands.  The more crowded- the bigger my smile if ,I succeed. 

[Belo]

the tax argument is a joke. Yes you pay taxes whether I hunt it or not. But that's what leases are for. I pay you some money you otherwise wouldn't receive for access to land you're likely not using that time of the year. Or, and more common with farmers is some help around the property doing stuff. Sometimes it's a bottle of wine and some castanza sausage. I don't think any hunter should expect to hunt "for free". Whether it's sweat equity, gifts or money you're unlikely to find free access, and if you do, you're very likely to have company or future company.

[mowin]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

the tax argument is a joke. Yes you pay taxes whether I hunt it or not. But that's what leases are for. I pay you some money you otherwise wouldn't receive for access to land you're likely not using that time of the year. Or, and more common with farmers is some help around the property doing stuff. Sometimes it's a bottle of wine and some castanza sausage. I don't think any hunter should expect to hunt "for free". Whether it's sweat equity, gifts or money you're unlikely to find free access, and if you do, you're very likely to have company or future company.

Around here there are very few farms left. Those that are here, the family hunts the property..

  Most farms in my area have been sold off.  Now we have $1.5-3.5m dollar "estates" on 50 to 200 acres, few of them larger, that don't give a crap about your lease money. Taxes on theses places are $15k-25k a yr.  Someone's $3500 isn't going to unlock that gate. 

[blackbeltbill]

 I believe  my last 2 Letters,I sent out years back,I offered to pay $250 Bucks for a Weekend Spring Turkey Hunt.  Nada.

[Belo]

14 minutes ago, mowin said:

Around here there are very few farms left. Those that are here, the family hunts the property..

  Most farms in my area have been sold off.  Now we have $1.5-3.5m dollar "estates" on 50 to 200 acres, few of them larger, that don't give a crap about your lease money. Taxes on theses places are $15k-25k a yr.  Someone's $3500 isn't going to unlock that gate. 

but that further supports my point. They're not turning hunters away because "they pay the taxes". They're turning them away because it's their land and their right. 

[mowin]

14 minutes ago, Belo said:

but that further supports my point. They're not turning hunters away because "they pay the taxes". They're turning them away because it's their land and their right. 

Agreed. That and the perceived liability issues. Although they have no issues hiring someone under the table. Lol.

I know a dozen guys that do the caretaking for  properties I'm talking about. They are the only ones allowed to hunt those lands.  The owners trust these guys and that's the only way to get into a lot of these high dollar estates. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by mowin

[Nomad]

59 minutes ago, Belo said:

the tax argument is a joke.

Ha just repeating what many owners in the family and area say . I stand by that 100% I’ve heard the tax thing from them for 30 years . A college class of some sort used to look for beads and other Indian stuff in the fields . I was with  the owner when they said who the hell is that out there ? Once told it was the college , the tax thing was their answer .

Last time i heard an owner say that was as little as two weeks ago as I said in my original post . These are also folks getting the AG exemption on taxes like we do as well .

As far as liability,it’s hard to find any land by me that’s not owned by a LLC to reduce exposure to liability, some do trusts but that my be to address legacy concerns idk . Liability is a real concern ,perhaps we’re just forward thinking individuals. Our attorney wants us to also carry a liability policy of some sort , as well as post and deny all requests to,use the land . 

Just my experiences .

[dbHunterNY]

13 hours ago, escpen said:

I’ve already told my kids that any properties I own will be going to one of them individually and that the decision on who the property(ies) go to will likely be based on how stable they are in their lives (I.e. do they have good jobs?  A good relationship with their spouse? Etc.). I currently own 2 small hunting properties and an co-owner with a family member in another (so far co-ownership has been fine, but I’m concerned that could change). Problem is that I have 4 kids - not enough for all of them yet, and they’re still way too young to gauge stability. 

the whole thing will very likely get divided up equally between the two of us, even though we never fight and get along great. we also both have spouses that would have a vested interest. both households are very stable but honestly nobody can predict the future and any hardship that might be a factor. it's a hard pill to shallow but honestly if they're young enough a prenuptial agreement when they get married is probably something to look into. not sure how much water it holds under what circumstances. if something happened to me it's hard to say how well my sibling and wife would get along with life changing assets in play. money and assets make some people do things they otherwise wouldn't. i just know that together we should have each others back so we both keep "the farm", even if it'd really be considered two contiguous farms.

3 hours ago, broomeguy said:

There are some properties classified as Family Trust or something like that. Perhaps a good way to slow down the break up of larger acreage tracts.

I manage a several thousand contiguous acre QDM co-op (if you even call it that) it's not extensively managed with QDM in mind. We just all have a hand shake agreement to shooting a minimum size buck based on use of antler restrictions and then I apply for DMAP doe tags under custom deer management to stay within carrying capacity and other reasons like offsetting any lack of buck opportunity. a large number of properties are living trust, corporation trust, irrevocable estate type of trust, LLCs, or under some sort of conservation "forever wild" program. days of bob or john personal owned property are long gone. problems are almost mutually exclusive; one being afford to keep it, the other being multiple owners to make any decision.