Hunting access

[dbHunterNY]

35 minutes ago, Nomad said:

......These are also folks getting the AG exemption on taxes like we do as well .....

a lot of money on the table for older folks with farm land getting an ag and enhanced star exemption. its a great thing but there's some old oblivious folks getting his taxes done by H&R block or hack job rubber stamping tax place that doesn't tell them about any of it. IRS doesn't exactly call you up and say "hey you could be saving money".

[Belo]

43 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Ha just repeating what many owners in the family and area say . I stand by that 100% I’ve heard the tax thing from them for 30 years . A college class of some sort used to look for beads and other Indian stuff in the fields . I was with  the owner when they said who the hell is that out there ? Once told it was the college , the tax thing was their answer .

Last time i heard an owner say that was as little as two weeks ago as I said in my original post . These are also folks getting the AG exemption on taxes like we do as well .

As far as liability,it’s hard to find any land by me that’s not owned by a LLC to reduce exposure to liability, some do trusts but that my be to address legacy concerns idk . Liability is a real concern ,perhaps we’re just forward thinking individuals. Our attorney wants us to also carry a liability policy of some sort , as well as post and deny all requests to,use the land . 

Just my experiences .

Oh I'm not saying that people don't say that, I agree they 100% do. But it's a shitty reason response. If I'm a landowner and someone asks for access, I don't respond with pay my taxes. I respond with lease agreements with hunters insurance (a real thing), or I tell them no, it's my property and I'm not interested in you allowing you access. It's as simple as that. 

[Belo]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:35 PM, Versatile Hunter said:

I’ve never asked a total stranger for permission. I personally don’t like being solicited by phone or at my door (spam). Face-to-face would be the right way to ask for permission but walking up to someone’s home feels like such an intrusion.

Now, once you’ve built a relationship with someone, or at the very least related on a personal level, the ask feels less inappropriate. 

We go up to the wineries in the finger lakes yearly. At one particular winery my dog would play with the owner’s dog (both versatile hunting dogs). After a few visits, talking grapes and hunting, the owner very generously invited me to hunt in one of his vineyards. When you connect with people without expectations, these things tend to be much more natural. 

start with a letter. knocking on the door is fine too. I actually used to bring 1 or 2 of my kids along. I'd dress casually, not in a suit and tie and not in full camo or like I was just changing the oil on the truck. 

Seeing the kids puts people at ease and I think speaks to some level of "this isn't some weirdo". I'm 2 for 2 in my life on permissions, but I know that's not the norm. It's like high school dating, you can't hook up with a girl if you don't try. The worst thing is she says know and maybe you get some intel on who is hunting it or why you can't etc. 

[2BuckBizCT]

2 hours ago, mowin said:

Around here there are very few farms left. Those that are here, the family hunts the property..

  Most farms in my area have been sold off.  Now we have $1.5-3.5m dollar "estates" on 50 to 200 acres, few of them larger, that don't give a crap about your lease money. Taxes on theses places are $15k-25k a yr.  Someone's $3500 isn't going to unlock that gate. 

Those tax amounts are way too low. a $3M house in westchester (let's say scarsdale) is $75K-$100K taxes on 1 single acre.

[Caveman]

1 hour ago, Nomad said:

Ha just repeating what many owners in the family and area say . I stand by that 100% I’ve heard the tax thing from them for 30 years . A college class of some sort used to look for beads and other Indian stuff in the fields . I was with  the owner when they said who the hell is that out there ? Once told it was the college , the tax thing was their answer .

Last time i heard an owner say that was as little as two weeks ago as I said in my original post . These are also folks getting the AG exemption on taxes like we do as well .

As far as liability,it’s hard to find any land by me that’s not owned by a LLC to reduce exposure to liability, some do trusts but that my be to address legacy concerns idk . Liability is a real concern ,perhaps we’re just forward thinking individuals. Our attorney wants us to also carry a liability policy of some sort , as well as post and deny all requests to,use the land . 

Just my experiences .

In general, lawyers are extremely risk averse and will give you overly conservative advice in these matters. But this is actually good advice even with NY's landowner protections. 

 

The big advantage to carrying a liability policy is that it will cover your defense costs. As mentioned above, the General Obligations Law will generally shield you from liability in the end, but you will need to litigate all the factual issues that would entitle you to it's protections: did you intentionally create a dangerous condition, were you malicious in your failure to warn, etc.

 

Without liability insurance, you're paying your defense costs out of pocket and not many people have the scratch to pay $250/hr for a decent attorney to litigate a case through summary judgment. Instead, your insurer's attorney will pick up the tab.

[riverrat]

Some of the experiences you guys share boggle my mind. LOL

From 1984 to 1997 I worked as a road service repairman for John Deere. I kept farmers farming. in return I could hunt and trap in any town in Otsego, Chenango, and Half of Madison Delaware counties. Also a couple places Around Ellinville and Goshen in Orange county. Out of all these places where I was welcome to hunt back then I'd say there are less than 20% that are still farms.

Most of the  remaining land is either  leased/rented by the remaining farmers or split into smaller acreage. Of these there are 10-12 places where where I could show up and hunt no questions asked( that I don't use) with about twice as many with trapping rights that I do use.

As far as land, Our family farm and property is in a Trust that will be retained in the farm LLC and a couple parcels between me and 2 of my 5 siblings.

[mowin]

45 minutes ago, 2BuckBizCT said:

Those tax amounts are way too low. a $3M house in westchester (let's say scarsdale) is $75K-$100K taxes on 1 single acre.

I'm not in Westchester.. 

[dbHunterNY]

36 minutes ago, 2BuckBizCT said:

Those tax amounts are way too low. a $3M house in westchester (let's say scarsdale) is $75K-$100K taxes on 1 single acre.

When I do quick math taking a couple parcels i know of for up this way in the upper hudson river valley I get this....

a 320 acre farm with a dwelling would pay around $27k in taxes (school and county) without any exemptions (that your example wouldn't have) with an assessed value of around $878k. that's like 3% and your example is around 2.8%. so you're really both right just not on the same page. mowin's example seems a tad low for me too but it probably includes exemptions which is why it seems cheaper. like ag and how parcels are split can knocks it down by more than half and then if you're old enough like a senior citizen it can knock it down even more.

[2BuckBizCT]

31 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

When I do quick math taking a couple parcels i know of for up this way in the upper hudson river valley I get this....

a 320 acre farm with a dwelling would pay around $27k in taxes (school and county) without any exemptions (that your example wouldn't have) with an assessed value of around $878k. that's like 3% and your example is around 2.8%. so you're really both right just not on the same page. mowin's example seems a tad low for me too but it probably includes exemptions which is why it seems cheaper. like ag and how parcels are split can knocks it down by more than half and then if you're old enough like a senior citizen it can knock it down even more.

Non-buildable is huge. That keeps taxes low, perfect for hunting only.

[mowin]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

When I do quick math taking a couple parcels i know of for up this way in the upper hudson river valley I get this....

a 320 acre farm with a dwelling would pay around $27k in taxes (school and county) without any exemptions (that your example wouldn't have) with an assessed value of around $878k. that's like 3% and your example is around 2.8%. so you're really both right just not on the same page. mowin's example seems a tad low for me too but it probably includes exemptions which is why it seems cheaper. like ag and how parcels are split can knocks it down by more than half and then if you're old enough like a senior citizen it can knock it down even more.

Just about every place around here with 50 acres or more is a registered farm with some fancy name and a sign out front. Most don't have a single farm animal on it, but most have the fields cut by a local farmer. 

I've seen my one clients school tax bill... 200 acres one house and two barns.  15k. Going to assume his property taxes are going to be a little less than school, at 10k.  Place would probably sell for 2.5 mill.  They own the adjacent house with 2 acres on a separate deed. 

[The Back 40]

4 hours ago, mowin said:

Agreed. That and the perceived liability issues. Although they have no issues hiring someone under the table. Lol.

I know a dozen guys that do the caretaking for  properties I'm talking about. They are the only ones allowed to hunt those lands.  The owners trust these guys and that's the only way to get into a lot of these high dollar estates. 

Years ago I had a project on Pale Face Mtn. in ADK. It was a privately owned ski mtn. and the owner was never there so they had a "grounds keeper" who lived for free on the property with his family and drove a company truck. He was a PITA when it came to access to the property, where we could park, where we could go, when we could be there and no one was allowed to hunt the property. A few years later I was back up that way working across from White Face and we heard that the owner made a surprise visit and found a bunch of deer and bears hanging in the barn and fired the guy on the spot, kicked them out of the guest house and took the truck. Come to find out he was using it like a private hunting ground for him and his friends. 

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, 2BuckBizCT said:

Non-buildable is huge. That keeps taxes low, perfect for hunting only.

It's not that it's non-buildable but most of the time its vacant land. If you're smart you put it in one or your other halfs name, or both so each parcel is different and doesn't get lumped into and one. Some towns out here have zoning that prevents subdivisions. Big parcel less marketable as less can afford it. You can easily sell mutliple parcels in one sale though. If that makes sense.

[Belo]

1 hour ago, mowin said:

I'm not in Westchester.. 

 

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

When I do quick math taking a couple parcels i know of for up this way in the upper hudson river valley I get this....

a 320 acre farm with a dwelling would pay around $27k in taxes (school and county) without any exemptions (that your example wouldn't have) with an assessed value of around $878k. that's like 3% and your example is around 2.8%. so you're really both right just not on the same page. mowin's example seems a tad low for me too but it probably includes exemptions which is why it seems cheaper. like ag and how parcels are split can knocks it down by more than half and then if you're old enough like a senior citizen it can knock it down even more.

Generally speaking in the MAJORITY of NYS, you're not taxed heavily on land, but the value of the home. A $500k house in monroe on 40 acres (assuming not lake frontage) is not going to have a drastically different bill for the same assessed home on 3. 

[dbHunterNY]

Just now, Belo said:

 

Generally speaking in the MAJORITY of NYS, you're not taxed heavily on land, but the value of the home. A $500k house in monroe on 40 acres (assuming not lake frontage) is not going to have a drastically different bill for the same assessed home on 3. 

I agree that variation comes from where you are which affects you're assessment. Taxes per assessment I imagine doesn't change much. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't own property in completely different areas of ny.

[The Back 40]

I know on my property they look at the house and "lawn" differently than the fields and the woods. They consider the woods "unimproved land" and it is taxed at a much lower rate. My property is actually two parcels and the back parcel is all woods and it gets a separate tax bill and that is how they list it.