How Many Make It To The Coveted Blackbelt?

[blackbeltbill]

16 hours ago, The Back 40 said:

Bolt, My intent here is not to belittle the instructor you mentioned, and I normally would get involved this type of conversation but, the things you describe sound like all the warning signs of a McDojo. 

• Instructor has black belts in multiple MA's
• Students quickly start training "weapons" 
• Attention is not given to learning basic foundational techniques
• young students are being taught joint locks and chokes.
• Are they asking you to pay for promotion testing for every "tip or belt"?

I have met a lot of these "Masters" throughout the years, They advertise that they have multiple black belts and they can teach people "self defense" realistically they teach poor technique in a form of martial arts that is not trained against real resistance. The weapons make it flashy and appealing to kids and some adults. If you are sending your child there to burn some energy and have some fun that's great but be cautious if you believe that they are going to learn real world self-defense because most don't even know what real self-defense is.

Take a look at Bullshido. you'll get the picture. https://www.bullshido.net/

    It took me 7 1/2 Years to reach 2nd Degree Black Belt. I was with Sensei Deblasio for 13 years.  I never got promoted again- even with 5 more years of Training and Teaching.

    Nothing was handed out in Deblasio's  School. It was very Street Oriented. 

 But reaching Black Belt is just the beginning.  Lifetime practice follows- even when alone. Far too many never Train again.

 

[The Back 40]

5 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

    It took me 7 1/2 Years to reach 2nd Degree Black Belt. I was with Sensei Deblasio for 13 years.  I never got promoted again- even with 5 more years of Training and Teaching.

    Nothing was handed out in Deblasio's  School. It was very Street Oriented. 

 But reaching Black Belt is just the beginning.  Lifetime practice follows- even when alone. Far too many never Train again.

 

Bill, my comments to Bolt had nothing to do with your school or training. It was specifically addressing what he was observing at his child's school. There are a lot of shitty schools out there teaching garbage MA. But there are also a lot of different reasons people take MA classes. Not everyone is out there training to become a proficient fighter, some just want to enjoy themselves and get a health benefit. Either is fine but they are not the same.

I have heard countless people over the years talk about how great the school they send their kids to is and how they are learning to "defend" themselves. Realistically their kids are attending a glorified dance school and getting a false sense of security.  But if an individual does not know what the warning signs are they can end up drinking the Kool-Aid of board breaking and windmill kicks.

[blackbeltbill]

19 minutes ago, The Back 40 said:

Bill, my comments to Bolt had nothing to do with your school or training. It was specifically addressing what he was observing at his child's school. There are a lot of shitty schools out there teaching garbage MA. But there are also a lot of different reasons people take MA classes. Not everyone is out there training to become a proficient fighter, some just want to enjoy themselves and get a health benefit. Either is fine but they are not the same.

I have heard countless people over the years talk about how great the school they send their kids to is and how they are learning to "defend" themselves. Realistically their kids are attending a glorified dance school and getting a false sense of security.  But if an individual does not know what the warning signs are they can end up drinking the Kool-Aid of board breaking and windmill kicks.

Got it. Just adding on is all.

[blackbeltbill]

A good way to know if the School you might join is Legit and Street Oriented  is to watch the Sparring. Between the Adults- not the Kids. Usually  this happens  later into the Night . Children's classes will run closer to Dinner time and Adult Classes will often be later to 8pm or 9pm.  That is what you want to observe.

    

[blackbeltbill]

Found an older picture. I was probably on my way to Class when my Sister snapped this pic. A Bodyshot to the Ribs is being thrown. Good Memory.

 

 

[dbHunterNY]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:59 PM, blackbeltbill said:

A good way to know if the School you might join is Legit and Street Oriented  is to watch the Sparring. Between the Adults- not the Kids. Usually  this happens  later into the Night . Children's classes will run closer to Dinner time and Adult Classes will often be later to 8pm or 9pm.  That is what you want to observe.

back when I took TaeKwonDo even in the colored belts we always did a little sparring. it was almost never go wild with gear.  all no contact that applied different strikes or blocks. basically the idea was to develop skills to execute what you learned in a controlled manner to the point where it was fluid and natural. if things look clunky and awkard from the start its normal but far before any experienced adults or kids that shouldn't be the case. that'd otherwise be a red flag to me. i don't remember any use of weapons prior to black belt or some version of brown belt almost there. idk how those belts translate to other disciplines though. so i guess i agree with what @The Back 40 is saying.

[blackbeltbill]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:31 AM, The Back 40 said:

Bill, my comments to Bolt had nothing to do with your school or training. It was specifically addressing what he was observing at his child's school. There are a lot of shitty schools out there teaching garbage MA. But there are also a lot of different reasons people take MA classes. Not everyone is out there training to become a proficient fighter, some just want to enjoy themselves and get a health benefit. Either is fine but they are not the same.

I have heard countless people over the years talk about how great the school they send their kids to is and how they are learning to "defend" themselves. Realistically their kids are attending a glorified dance school and getting a false sense of security.  But if an individual does not know what the warning signs are they can end up drinking the Kool-Aid of board breaking and windmill kicks.

Indeed. Deblasio's  School was Street Oriented.  

[blackbeltbill]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

back when I took TaeKwonDo even in the colored belts we always did a little sparring. it was almost never go wild with gear.  all no contact that applied different strikes or blocks. basically the idea was to develop skills to execute what you learned in a controlled manner to the point where it was fluid and natural. if things look clunky and awkard from the start its normal but far before any experienced adults or kids that shouldn't be the case. that'd otherwise be a red flag to me. i don't remember any use of weapons prior to black belt or some version of brown belt almost there. idk how those belts translate to other disciplines though. so i guess i agree with what @The Back 40 is saying.

 Deblasio's School  was Street oriented.  There could be Full Contact at times for the experienced Adults. 

  I used to also teach the 4 Basic Breakfalls in my Friday Night Classes.

[dbHunterNY]

49 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

 Deblasio's School  was Street oriented.  There could be Full Contact at times for the experienced Adults. 

  I used to also teach the 4 Basic Breakfalls in my Friday Night Classes.

whenever we did full contact it was with gear. not sure i get the street oriented angle. i mean we learned how to block and counter. we had knife props on occasion but not say a dumby handgun. all the concepts apply though. if they have a gun or knife you're not going to block something and move back out of the way, you're going to counter with something that affords control. i remember a few times over the years when control wasn't completely there and follow through with a non-contact strike close too much distance or pressure for a submission was too much before a tap or the instructor said something and we had to give him a minute. as a kid you were very apologetic, felt really bad, and pretty much embarrassed as all hell. full contact was pretty much reserved for sparing demos at festivals and competition at tournaments (despite I never did any competition). we saw very little need for it compared to non-contact sparing. we did put a hell of a beating on many kick pads, punch gloves, and big blocking shield pads.

[blackbeltbill]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

whenever we did full contact it was with gear. not sure i get the street oriented angle. i mean we learned how to block and counter. we had knife props on occasion but not say a dumby handgun. all the concepts apply though. if they have a gun or knife you're not going to block something and move back out of the way, you're going to counter with something that affords control. i remember a few times over the years when control wasn't completely there and follow through with a non-contact strike close too much distance or pressure for a submission was too much before a tap or the instructor said something and we had to give him a minute. as a kid you were very apologetic, felt really bad, and pretty much embarrassed as all hell. full contact was pretty much reserved for sparing demos at festivals and competition at tournaments (despite I never did any competition). we saw very little need for it compared to non-contact sparing. we did put a hell of a beating on many kick pads, punch gloves, and big blocking shield pads.

Thanks for Sharing. Today,I would probably  be a good MMA or Boxing Coach.  I see so many Avoidable things that few are correcting.

[The Back 40]

Realistically most traditional martial arts suck for  real-world street fights or self-defense. that is why so many people train MMA and even that has its limits.  Any place that is teaching "hand to knife" or "hand to gun" techniques is setting their students up to get hurt or killed and people who believe they are going to do a few fancy moves and take a knife away from someone who is motivated to stab you is fooling themselves.

They did a whole series of videos where they took a bunch of well-known martial artists and "self defense experts" and put them through a series of real-world challenges. the thumbnail may look cheesy but the videos are good and show how quickly shit changes when you are not in a controlled environment with a cooperative training partner.

 

 

[blackbeltbill]

1 minute ago, The Back 40 said:

Realistically most traditional martial arts suck for  real-world street fights or self-defense. that is why so many people train MMA and even that has its limits.  Any place that is teaching "hand to knife" or "hand to gun" techniques is setting their students up to get hurt or killed and people who believe they are going to do a few fancy moves and take a knife away from someone who is motivated to stab you is fooling themselves.

They did a whole series of videos where they took a bunch of well-known martial artists and "self defense experts" and put them through a series of real-world challenges. the thumbnail may look cheesy but the videos are good and show how quickly shit changes when you are not in a controlled environment with a cooperative training partner.

 

 

    My Black Belt Test back in 1986was an outdoor affair down in Edison,NJ . A good 100+ people were working out in a big Park. Sensei Gary Alexander had a School in that area. 

   I went down with My Sensei- John Deblasio and alot of my fellow Students.

   I did not know,I was to be tested. And the Test was simple. Fight 3 Men Full Contact- Bare Knuckle.

 1st Man was a Black Belt. 6ft+ and a good 220lbs. One of Alexander's top Black Belts. I definitely  won.

 Next up within 10 minutes was another of Alexander's Black Belts. I won that one.

3rd Fight within 10 Minutes was a high ranking Brown Belt . Mirrored me at 5,9" and around 220lbs. I won a close bout with the Toughest of the 3-- all Heavyweights  and strong as Hell.

 Awarded my Black Belt later in a restaurant that night.

   Really- Tests like this are a thing of the past as are the Schools for the most part . 

   This is how we trained. Plenty of Standing Jujitsu,Boxing,Hard Style Karate, Muay Thai,etc. Learning Break Fall were vital with all the Grappling and hard Tosses.

   How do I as a former instructor  feel about what Will prepare a student for the Brutal Reality of the Street. At some point he must Fight Full Contact. There is no substitute  for this.

  Thankfully back then my Defense  was rock solid and,I never took alot of Shots. My Share sure.  And it 

[blackbeltbill]

 Let me finish- accidentally  hit the submit button.   The importance  of also preparing  for multiple assailants  is vital. 

  For most people  by their late 30s- they are not going to seek any Training. 

  A little while back- a member here who howls loud at the Moon thinks that,I am a Harmless Old Man.  How wrong he is..   He  loves to Antagonize  when he is Bored and is best ignored by yours Truly.