Modified / Un-Modified Crossbow Permit

[Nomad]

12 minutes ago, grampy said:

For what it's worth, I got my doctor signature this morning. And will send the copy to DEC today to be able to use a crossbow throughout the entire bow season. I say this with bittersweet feelings. As My love for shooting, and hunting with my bow will never go away. But due to certain heath issues, I am being forced to give it up. But with a crossbow in hand, I can still participate in one of my lifelong passions.........bowhunting! That means the world to me. No matter what is in my hand, as I wait for that perfect shot.

I hope to still carry my compound bow on occasions when I still feel a little frisky? I would so love to get at least one more deer with it! But knowing I now have a choice, even on the not so great days is a relief to me.

Yeah........I took the easy way out as some would say. But all during my 66 years, I've never much listened to the outside noise. I prefer the quiet from within.

Congrats !

I look back just a few years , one exercise they had me do was put my back against a wall,put my arms up like im being held up, and slide them up the wall,till,they’re straight up .

Last night I couldn’t get them to,with in 6-7 inches of,the wall lol .

 

[grampy]

6 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Congrats !

I look back just a few years , one exercise they had me do was put my back against a wall,put my arms up like im being held up, and slide them up the wall,till,they’re straight up .

Last night I couldn’t get them to,with in 6-7 inches of,the wall lol .

 

I feel your pain brother.

[BowmanMike]

I doubt even full crossbow inclusion would bring a ton more hunters in the woods. Maybe closer to urban areas,but where I live I doubt it would make a big difference. I personally wouldn't use one because I love shooting my bow. If I get to the point where I can't draw it I may reconsider.

A crossbow extends the range from 30yds for me to 50? Not that big a difference. 

 

[Wolc123]

42 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

I doubt even full crossbow inclusion would bring a ton more hunters in the woods. Maybe closer to urban areas,but where I live I doubt it would make a big difference. I personally wouldn't use one because I love shooting my bow. If I get to the point where I can't draw it I may reconsider.

A crossbow extends the range from 30yds for me to 50? Not that big a difference. 

 

The most important thing that the crossbow does for me, compared to a vertical bow, is to reduce the chances of “string jump” caused by shooting at an alert deer.  

Certainly there are other ways around that issue - the easiest being to get way up in the air.  That one don’t do it for me, because the older I get, the more uncomfortable I am hunting from very high .  I’m most comfortable 5-10 ft up which is high enough to take me out of the crossfire from others and for the ground to act as a backstop for my own shots.
 

Also, the vast majority of deer hunting accidents involve falls from tree stands.  While I do love venison, certainly not enough to die or get injured for.  I lost a friend and neighbor to a tree stand fall about (2) years ago. 
 

String jump very often leads to the arrow striking a place where it was not intended, due to the speed of the deer and the speed of the arrow.  That leads to lots, and probably  the majority of wounded and non recovered deer.  
 

The biggest advantage of the crossbow with that, is the elimination of the need for that quick (and very detectable by the deer) draw motion when the deer is in close.  
 

So for me, I would always pick crossbow over a vertical bow if it was legal, because I prefer the deer that I shoot to end up here: 

 

 

And not here: 

 

It really is not any more complicated than that. If I wanted a challenge, I’d play golf.  I hunt mostly for food.  
 

I’m not going to have my doctor sign off on the form this year (I heard being on high blood pressure meds was a valid excuse) because there’s not a lot of room for more meat in our freezer now thanks to the early antlerless season.  
 

That “special” season by the way, was my favorite by-product of the opposition to the crossbow by certain political lobby groups and the resulting lack of full inclusion of the crossbow the last few years.   Next year, I’m in though. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Wolc123

[grampy]

13 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

I doubt even full crossbow inclusion would bring a ton more hunters in the woods. Maybe closer to urban areas,but where I live I doubt it would make a big difference. I personally wouldn't use one because I love shooting my bow. If I get to the point where I can't draw it I may reconsider.

A crossbow extends the range from 30yds for me to 50? Not that big a difference. 

 

As we age, we all will make decisions we didn't think we'd make when we were younger.

I agree with you on I don't see full inclusion bringing in substantial numbers of NEW hunters.

My self imposed range for the crossbow, is exactly the same as with my bow. 35 yards maximum. Can I drill targets farther away with both? Yes. But there is a monumental difference between shooting at targets, and live animals. 

[Bucksnbows]

3 hours ago, Belo said:

that's all the data that's on the site. We know that the heydays of hunting for just about all species was the 90's. No doubt. But 14 years of data is still a long time. Guys on here that are in their 60's now were in their 40's. Guys that are in their 40's were in their 20's. 

Point is, despite the average hunter's age rising, many new hunters are joining the sport. What we're seeing (as some members can attest to) is that it's not the typical "pass it down" hunter, but many new demographics including women and urban hunters. A new group of hunters who are interested in field to fork and DIY. 

Should we sit back and put our feet up? Of course not. But even without the covid spike, our numbers are relatively flat, which means as old hunters leave, we're replacing them with new hunters at the same rate. 

Some would say we don't necessarily want a ton of new hunters (not my opinion, but it's floated out there). Those same guys would say it's just as, if not more important that non-hunters still support hunters more than anything, because if we're all honest that is our biggest risk. The day that the general public doesn't support the 10% of the population that hunts we all lose. Right now over 70% of amerian's support hunting and we know that 70% don't hunt. Those are the folks we need to keep on our radar. 

NY hunters are 2.8% of your state’s population, not 10%. But that’s nearly 3X higher than here in NJ. Not surprising given that NJ is the most densely populated state in the nation and third smallest in size. 
 

If you can find license sales data back to the 60s and 70s, you begin to see how far sales have fallen. Yes, most states seem to have stabilized in that drop, but nation wide it’s something like 60% fewer and yet our population has doubled just in my 58 years on this big round ball. 

[2BuckBizCT]

2 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

A crossbow extends the range from 30yds for me to 50? Not that big a difference. 

 

I'm not up to date on current xbow ballistics since I last shot one in 2019. But 50 yards is a poke with an xbow. Assuming your sighted in dead-on at 20-25 yards it's still a 2 to 3 FOOT drop at 50 yards. 

[Dinsdale]

55 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

NY hunters are 2.8% of your state’s population, not 10%. But that’s nearly 3X higher than here in NJ. Not surprising given that NJ is the most densely populated state in the nation and third smallest in size. 
 

If you can find license sales data back to the 60s and 70s, you begin to see how far sales have fallen. Yes, most states seem to have stabilized in that drop, but nation wide it’s something like 60% fewer and yet our population has doubled just in my 58 years on this big round ball. 

On Belo’s stat….you are interpreting it wrong.

It’s 10% of the population that hunts OR strongly supports hunting. So not the actual percentage of hunters, but all those that recognize hunting as a positive in all its manners (meat,trophy,getting outside,tradition)

10% are anti hunting no matter what; no matter what facts presented in any manner.

Most non hunters, around 70%,support hunting and thats dependent on how it’s presented……as food almost always being highly supported by non hunters. Say “trophy hunting” and it will cut that support to near nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nomad]

Bow hunting since ‘88 , I took one shot at 25 yards ,killed  a doe .My shots  run 8-15 yards generally , I like up close hunting , I feel there’s more on the line at 8-15 yards then some deer 40-50 yards out , that’s the thrill I enjoy . 

As for numbers of hunters , good to see it level off ,but we’re still down I’d say a couple hundred thousand from when I started mid ‘70s . The point brought up about the population doubling while we got that drop is something not to be overlooked .

 

[Belo]

2 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

NY hunters are 2.8% of your state’s population, not 10%. But that’s nearly 3X higher than here in NJ. Not surprising given that NJ is the most densely populated state in the nation and third smallest in size. 
 

If you can find license sales data back to the 60s and 70s, you begin to see how far sales have fallen. Yes, most states seem to have stabilized in that drop, but nation wide it’s something like 60% fewer and yet our population has doubled just in my 58 years on this big round ball. 

The 10% is a rough number that I recall hearing as the national average. Maybe that included those who fish. A quick google search on the subject shows it's around 4-5%. My point is that we are a small minority and a couple percentage points difference is just detracting from my point. Yes number have dropped 3.1% since the 60's. Is that a huge amount? IDK... But it's a drop, and not one that I disputed. A lot in this world has changed since 1960's. We could write paragraphs on it (BBB often starts plenty of threads each week reminiscing about the past). 

In general, the decline is mostly attributed to more urbanization, better access to meat and a big one here, lack of access. My dad speaks fondly of the days where he had his shotgun in the back rack when he drove to school and would chase pheasants in the fields when he got out. Those fields are all now suburbs or posted and a gun at school? ha.

I stand by my point that statisically speaking in the modern era, our numbers are not dwindling. Compared to an era where the 69 camaro didn't even exist? Sure. Full inclusion isn't bringing any new hunters into the game, we all agreed upon this in another now locked thread. But what this thread is discussing, and what I fully support is extending the season for those who otherwise would not be able to enjoy it. And for that, I say bravo!

 

https://wildlifeforall.us/resources/decline-of-hunting-and-fishing/#:~:text=In relative numbers%2C the percentage,percent of the U.S. population.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Belo

[Belo]

4 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

I doubt even full crossbow inclusion would bring a ton more hunters in the woods. Maybe closer to urban areas,but where I live I doubt it would make a big difference. I personally wouldn't use one because I love shooting my bow. If I get to the point where I can't draw it I may reconsider.

A crossbow extends the range from 30yds for me to 50? Not that big a difference. 

 

oh man, the amount of nice deer i've had in that 35-50 range though. Generally I think it's more about movement on the draw though, and how long one can hold that draw if he stops behind a tree. 

[2BuckBizCT]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

Generally I think it's more about movement on the draw though, and how long one can hold that draw if he stops behind a tree. 

I find it way way easier to hold my compound at full draw than xbow was. It's probably half the weight and with only 52lbs, i can walk/jog around at full draw. 

[Lawdwaz]

12 minutes ago, 2BuckBizCT said:

I find it way way easier to hold my compound at full draw than xbow was. It's probably half the weight and with only 52lbs, i can walk/jog around at full draw. 

Shirley, you’re not holding 52lbs.   Lol

(not a typo)

The movement to pick up a crossbow and pull the trigger is certainly much less than drawing a vertical bow and shooting.   Many hunt from blinds, huts, tree stands with cross bars etc making that much easier with the xbow.    You know that……

[Nomad]

37 minutes ago, Belo said:

oh man, the amount of nice deer i've had in that 35-50 range though. Generally I think it's more about movement on the draw though, and how long one can hold that draw if he stops behind a tree. 

We used to practice holding full draw for one minute then shooting at the target easy as pie and that was with bows of 15 years  ago . Movement on the draw ,that’s an interesting thing . To me the “ draw “ is the least amount of movement, I would be standing have bow in hand raised up ,release on the D loop ,turned for the shot , simply moving my draw arm straight back a foot is the draw and least amount of movement in the process.

Raising the bow is not the draw ,turning is not the draw . And why would one actually draw when the deer is looking at you ? Your already busted .

One thing I do or did ,is stand , raise bow and draw on about every deer I see, trying to shoot on one deer a year teaches very little ,a few dozen now you’ll,learn a thing or three ,about when and how to move .

Ok time to light the grill 

[G-man]

Holding a crossbow up off hand  is  much harder than holding a compound at full  draw.. no comparison .  off a rest in a blind  would be easier  but  i prefer open hang on stands. .